Has the story become offensive?

[jayhenry]

This is a sensitive topic. But it's worth discussing in its own thread, rather than in each new video. I'd propose a ten-deep-breaths, calmly-reread-your-post sort of rule before posting. It's easy to get fired up on forums, I've been guilty of it too, but let's be very kind in this thread.

The question is whether the subject matter of the series has itself become insensitive or intolerant.

My personal take is that since this is a fictionalized offshoot of a religion in a fictional story, that this is not intended as commentary on real Thelema. By my exposure, to the religion through LG15, I would be more understanding of an actual Thelemite than before the series.

Did the Crowley picture and Thelema in Greek on the bottom of the Web site cross the line? Or is even mentioning a non-mainstream religion out of bounds because people will assume the worst? Tough questions.

Breathe...1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10... okay, post.

[milowent]

i am not offended in the least. i really want to know if others are, though.

some thelemites may be upset by lg15, i gather. the catholics went crazy over the da vinci code, but i don't think it had made any dent in membership. many muslims got very riled up about the dutch mohammed cartoons. any negative portrayal of any religion, fictional or otherwise, is bound to attract criticism from its adherents.

i guess this all goes back to the old speculation about whether lg15 is a moral tale preaching tolerance of all religions or a one-dimensional tale about a crazy cult who brainwashed poor helpless bree. i think the answer is going to be neither, and hope to be surprised. i hope the ending of all this will show us the original inspiration that made mesh come up with bree in the first place.

[Terryfic]

Although I am not offended by LG, I can really see how some people would be. Propagating negative stereotypes is never good, in any form. I use to really like the early LG vids because I felt that Bree was a bit of a feminist character, she certainly wasn’t the kind of girl that Mulvey had problems with. I felt Bree was intelligent, funny, and was the central driving force in the story, in general something of a role model for younger girls. I will be very disappointed if this story ends up being the classic passive girl in distress that needs a man to come and save her. That I will find offensive. But back on point.

As how Mulvey argued that the negative representation of women in film has a negative impact on society, so does the constant negative representation of alternative religions. Bree, a member of her religion, has herself claimed that members of her religion are dangerous and in general the whole thing is presented as look out for those crazy cults. Yes, this is all a story and it is talking about a fiction religion, but at the same time it does reinforce people’s negative connotations of cults and alterative religions. Of course a huge amount of media reinforces negative stereotypes and LG is not at all unique for doing it. I think part of my frustration is that I thought this series was a lot cleverer than I now believe it to be.

[Joss]

Salvador Dali used to say that in relation to people.. In truth it does not matter whether what they say about you as long as they talk about you.

I guess that Thelema's position is reinforced by the publicity made by LG15.. In a way they benefit of it wheter they like it or not. They will allways have the option to say that their religion is not for everyone so its ok with them if people has a false image of them for they will take care of proving any misconceptions wrong to those they choose to give the opportunity to become part of their cult.

Another way to look at it is that thanks to LG15 many people has learned about their existence. I can't see how a cult formed by "Elite" members can be anoyed by what the mass thinks, they are and have been secretive all this time for a reason.. Remember?

Fiction or not any LG15 fan wandering in the forest with a camera who by chance runs into anything resembling a ceremony will think twice about filming instead of just pretending not seeing anything and walking the other way.. ;D

[hyemew]

terryfic said:

I think part of my frustration is that I thought this series was a lot cleverer than I now believe it to be.

I FEEL EXACTLY THE SAME!! Though the truth is, it WAS indeed. Was, way back when. No longer.

[noasinger]

A piece of fiction isn't put beyond the reach of offending people simply because it is fiction. All media is communication. All communciation educates, no matter what the intention of its creators is. The lines between communication which *entertains*, communication which *informs*, and communication which *educates* are found within the audience, not set up by authors.

I have more to say, but at the moment I have to get dressed and go down to catch my bus. I'll pause on the traditional Big Example which illustrates the principle I'll be discussing.

No, I do not mean to directly compare LG15 to this fictional work in authorial intent. But to get minds working and ideas flowing about whether or not the Big Important Idea here is that "LG15 is fiction, and so people shouldn't be offende by it" here's a question for you:

Is The Turner Diaries offensive?

[flwright]

noasinger said:

<snip> The lines between communication which *entertains*, communication which *informs*, and communication which *educates* are found within the audience, not set up by authors.
<snip>
Here's a question for you:

Is The Turner Diaries offensive?

Is the Turner Diaries offensive?

Haven't read it, might read it for a discussion group, but from the Cliff-Wiki notes, I'm sure I would find it highly offensive.

But that would've been the exact opposite of the author's intention. Good point, Noasinger!

FLWright

[Smashing]

I'll leave it to followers of Thelema to be offended. For my part, if I ever meet someone who follows Thelema I won't judge them based on LG15.

[wixy15]

hyemew said:

terryfic said:

I think part of my frustration is that I thought this series was a lot cleverer than I now believe it to be.

I FEEL EXACTLY THE SAME!! Though the truth is, it WAS indeed. Was, way back when. No longer.

I completely agree. It was interesting but since they have come out it has just gone down hill. The subtlety has been lost. It no longer makes me wonder what is happening, The plot has become unconsistant and they seem to be reacting to fan imput way too much.

I lost interest last month, but have watched the video's. It's weird, I no longer fancy Bree. She has lost her mystery.