Wired article on LG

[Smashing]

Read it here

wow, a lot of behind the scenes info in this.

ETA: "Lonelygirl15.com, the site Beckett and Flinders maintain as the center of Bree's universe, generates about $10,000 a month in ad revenue by attaching commercials to the end of the videos they stream."

I would guess it's not only the ads at the end of videos, it's the banner ad as well. But holy friggin' crap! If that's accurate, they're making 10 grand a month and they're asking the fans for money?! edit: okay, as pointed out below this isn't necessarily unreasonable.

This was the best article I've read yet on LG.

[Terryfic]

I’d agree that this was one of the better articles on the show, I’m a little disappointed that it implied that Foremski was the reason the story broke that they were fake. But that is not all that surprising though, I think the only people that know the complete truth are those at the Cove.

Yeah, so $10,000 minus the $500 a week for both actors (for some reason I think Yousef might not be getting the same pay rate though) that leaves $6,000 a month profit. There are no other real costs, all the equipment is paid for and it costs nothing to shot on digital. I think LG is doing a pretty good job of paying for itself right now. I think they are asking for money more to pay for medical school bills then to pay to for the next episode.

I was so sad to see that really stupid Luke Skywalker analogy used again. I mean until I saw Hamill in a interview I was totally convinced that light sabers were real, it is not like that movie had opening credits or anything, LG is just like that.

Has anyone ever heard a single person in the production talk about fan interaction in anything other than the broadest terms possible. I think they have this idea that they want to make an interactive series but haven’t really thought it out beyond the first brainstormed session.

This piece was written two weeks after they were outted, so about 6 weeks ago, and they have still done not a thing to involve the fans. Sure they have a message board where Bree posts maybe once a day, and they are often riveting posts like when she was asked to go into more details about her religion “I know you won't be disrepectful [sic]. I appreciate that so much. I'm trying to think about it, but I'm scared and confused. I don't know if there's any information I have that can be useful.” I know I want to talk to someone who doesn’t seem to want to talk to me. They say that big networks only use the internet to support their shows. I would say one could easily argue the same case for how LG uses their website.

I don’t think true interactive fiction is possible within a linear story. The two concepts are just in such contrast that I think any attempt to combine them will just come out awkward. Look what happens when people try to adapt an interactive form (a video game) to a passive form (a film) the result is always terrible. This is because they are so fundamentally different.

But I don’t think that M&M are actually interested in creating a story that the fans are able to change, I think they want to make a story that fans are simply able to talk to the characters as if they were real people. Pretty much it is just role playing but with videos. That is cool, but they should structure a very precise mission statement about just what they want LG to be. Not like the first creators post, something that is in no way ambiguous or sounds like marketing speak. I think that would not only help focus the project for them, but it would also help focus it for the audience, we would no longer be confused about what role we are meant to play and what we should expect.

I found the last page the most interesting. I think they laid out some of the more obvious rules of how internet media should work. I would like to hear a more detailed interview with them solely on that topic (Paul or Scott if you are reading this I would love to hear your thoughts on this topic as well). I think there still a lot to be learned, and the audience will also have to learn the new rules web media too. We all have certain expectations of how a story should be told; the ones that TV and film have taught us. I don’t think all of these rules will necessary apply to internet media, so we will have to learn these new grammars.

[curiousgeorge]

Good find Smashing and I appreciate your thoughtful post T.

The writer of the article is obviously creator friendly because of the CAA connection with Amanda. No doubt this helps to get access to Mesh, who I find the most interesting of the group. Yes, the article is a gushing tribute piece, but what else could he write with this connection?

As for the economics, it did not state that the creators were being paid a salary at all. Bottom line, they have to eat too. I don't begrudge them taking a little off the top to pay the rent. I might be wrong, but I don't think $500/week for the on- screen talent is a lot of money if you are living in LA... Probably not much more, or even less, than you could make waiting tables at TGIF in LA. I don't see the total revenue of $120K/year a lot of money for a team venture...

I have been a vocal critic of the creators on many different issues, but the economics seem to pass the sniff test with me...

Does this in anyway negate my contempt of the totally crass t-shirt design debacle. A World Of No!

I could go on, but I have to head to work. Interested in reading comments from the group.

[Terryfic]

I didn't mean to imply that they are making money off of this venture either, simply that it is paying for itself at this point, but they shouldn't quit their day jobs. I live off of $650 a month canadian, so it is not like they are starving either. I was just pointing out, as others have, that their post about being broke was a little melodramatic.

[milowent]

Great article. Sure, it was off a bit on a few things (the Foremski thing for one* -- it wasn't an article focusing on the outing, so it abbreviated too much there), but I enjoyed it. If this was done about 2 weeks after the outing, its unlikely that $10,000/mo. revvernue figure is accurate. it was likely based on projections.

At least this article made it clear that they wanted Bree to seen as real at the beginning.

And this supports the idea that NBR, is, gulp, canon?! (ie, reference to multiple production teams)

*I also don't recall anyone posting all the SKU numbers to the target mechandise at YT or the Phorum during the hunt. That sounds like an illustration straight from Miles' mouth.

[Smashing]

I think I can sum up why this is so frustrating to me (and probably to Terry and others, but I will only speak for myself). It's because the creators are often incompetent, their public comments can't be trusted, they don't always seem that intelligent, the videos are hit and miss, we try to guess where they're heading when they themselves don't even know, and basically the whole project has been mismanaged. And yet--

They are a success. They are able to do this as their full-time job (because they HAVE quit their day jobs, except for Greg Goodfried), they are media darlings, they're not only number one, but also numbers 12 and 17 on YouTube, and most importantly we spend a great deal of our free time coming together to discuss them and everything related to them and some have even donated money to them (quite a reversal from the technically true but very misleading notion that fans of LG would be paid). It all hardly seems fair.

So what do we do? I hope it inspires people at the Cove to get off their asses and be their own Creator (and that's with a capital C, curiousgeorge). You don't have to create your own Internet show, it could be anything. Do something original. Do something so original that even if you screw it up, people still have to keep watching. Or do something unoriginal, but do it so well that people can't help but be impressed. Or make the world more fair by being of service to somebody who really needs it. Be a capital C.

[lesbrent]

smashing said:

So what do we do? I hope it inspires people at the Cove to get off their asses and be their own Creator (and that's with a capital C, curiousgeorge). You don't have to create your own Internet show, it could be anything. Do something original. Do something so original that even if you screw it up, people still have to keep watching. Or do something unoriginal, but do it so well that people can't help but be impressed. Or make the world more fair by being of service to somebody who really needs it. Be a capital C.

I love you smashing! That was brillant!

[mku77]

milowent said:

And this supports the idea that NBR, is, gulp, canon?! (ie, reference to multiple production teams)

POST MOVED TO HERE :
alissabrooke.proboards56.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=fans&thread=1163868820&page=1

[buckwheat]

Smashing: My thoughts exactly...Go figure..... And G did quit his job....some time ago..

[buckwheat]

Terryfic:"that leaves $6,000 a month profit. There are no other real costs..." Whoa, Terry, let's run the numbers here . . . . Since Miles, Greg and Amanda quit their day jobs some time ago and Mesh didn't have a day job in the first place to quit, that's four mouths to feed, rents to pay, cars to drive, cards to pay off, etc, etc, (and we don't even know if they are paying their new writers and actors-- Gemma, say?) and they've got $1500 a month "profit" each on which to do it with, in LA , of course (not in Canada unfortunately)
Wanna give it a try?

[Terryfic]

Ok, I know I am just sounding more and more like a jerk here, but when I said there were “no other real costs” I was referring to production costs only (i.e. the costs to develop film), not what they choose to pay themselves. Once again I did not want to imply that I think they are making on money with this project or that they could easily live off that kind of money, but I would like to point out that $1,500 a month is almost twice the poverty line.

All I was saying is that LG is paying for itself, it is not making money but nor is it losing money. If people want to donate money so that the people behind it get some extra scratch then that is cool. I look at this project as something similar open source software, which is given away for free. You can easily donate to those projects too, but almost none of the people involved expect to live off of this money, they all have day jobs. Why everyone involved in this project quit theirs is beyond me.

Also if they are short on cash and they are paying Gemma or the new writing team (or I god I hope not, Nikki Bower), then I can think of a very easy way to save some money, and at the same time actually make the show a little better. Miles was a plastic surgeon, he should know all about cutting off ugly growths.

Ok, that was a little harsh, but seriously I think I speak for all the fans when I say, if it comes down to them either not having enough money to produce LG as well as its spin offs then no one would really miss the spin offs.

Smashing I couldn't agree more, there is nothing like the high I get when I finish working on a project. Well, maybe really good mushrooms, but anyways, to people that have never had a video hit a 100,000 views I can tell you it is a hell of a rush. But to me it was never the popularity of my work (and I have made some real big flops in my time too) it is simply the satisfaction of knowing that my vision came to life, and I think that is a better goal than trying to make it big.

Impress yourself, make something that even after looking at it for 15 hours straight it still entertains to you.

[curiousgeorge]

Excellent post Smashing, I think that this should really be a jump start for all of us to Create our own work, whatever that may be....

I have tried to be more positive about the production lately, but have many of the reservations expressed in T's last post. Sigh. Especially egregious is that the folks here seem to be much more interested in a quality product than the creators themselves!

I grudgingly admit that even many posts on the phorum see through all the nonsense for what the production is at times. Double Sigh.

[noasinger]

I will simply note here that all that icky partisanship I have been throwing down has been sapping energy away from my own work, so vive le LG15, vive le pomagranate, vive le youabu, vive Everyone Else, vive la pulque, and it's all damn good. The more success there is now, the more success there will be to come.

I've just been through the wringer with a stupid financial situation which helped me gain some perspective. You know what? What is it to me whether the LG15 team's approaches have had to shift over the past several weeks? It has affected them, both the team and the talent, as we have seen in some rather uncomfortable ways. Obviously they have had frustrations to deal with, and have at times made poor choices in dealing with those frustrations. That has been the case with this project from square one (we know of one *very* bad and hurtful misstep), and we have seen that it was a problem again for them very recently.

But they haven't pulled the plug. Do I care why they haven't? No. Am I as much of a fan of the story as I have been in the past? Oh, no, no, no. And as far as I am aware, I shan't be contributing financially.

Am I still impressed that they are still trying to make this thing work? OF COURSE. These are not my problems to solve, and it profits nobody for me to handwring about them. Nor anyone else here. They are pushing ahead and struggling to make things work anyway. That sheer determination is something I can step back and actually admire.

Art is art whether it is new or not, whether it is well or poorly marketed, whether or not we like some of its creators, whether they have always made the best choices or not, whether it is fully consistent or not, and whether all of the creators agree on the motivations for making the art. They make art, we make art, others make art, and guess what, there is more art in the world. Some of the most beautiful works of art have always been commercial art. Others have been made just for the joy of visual, audio, or expansive storytelling.

[milowent]

Mesh speaks on the wired article at the forum:

lonelygirl15.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=74177#74177

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:30 am Post subject: Wired Article

I want to clear up some innaccuracies in the Wired Article.

Lonelygirl15 wasn’t my idea... it was Miles Beckett’s. Let me be very clear about that. It was Miles’ idea to tell a story through a series of viral videos. It was Miles’ idea to create a fictional videoblogger and to use that fictional blogger to tell a story. In fact when I met Miles, he had already started a company to harness the power of the internet to tell stories (not merely post video clips on the internet)

In the future when people look back on the impact that Lonelygirl15 has had on Internet Video the credit is Miles'. The things that I have contributed to the project could have just as easily been done in film or television. Miles puts in more man hours than I do and suffers more when the fans aren’t happy. He brought all of us together to achieve this vision.

Have no fear, Miles, Greg, Amanda and I love working together and will continue to bring you this exciting new form of entertainment, it is just sad that our first, big magazine article in an internet-centric publication doesn’t make the scope of Miles’ vision clear. It is because the reporter who wrote the story is a friend of my
family’s and I'm saddened to see that the story was told with this bias.

Sincerely,
Mesh Flinders

[hyemew]

This post from Mesh kind of made me sad, or something, in that he comes off as so nice! However I feel he's selling himself short, which is probably where the sadness comes from. Mesh, I didn't fall in love with the early LG15 series because it had cool editing, good camera tricks, or any of that. I fell in love with the increible writing and the captivating character. It was MESH's writing that really spoke to me and drew me in, combined with that Jess Rose charm which you can't script. I feel if Miles had been the one doing this it might have been nowhere near as intelligent character, but probably much more run of the mill and typical. The quirky difference of Bree and her studious yet engaging ways is what drew me and thousands more in. Without Mesh none of that wouldn't have been possible. Just because Miles works longer hours as he claims does not mean he somehow had more to do with lonelygirl's success. I'm sure he works hard for it, but it was Mesh's magic which did the trick.