I'm Hiding Out [10.20.06]

[noasinger]

Word, and I'll bring over a post I did on the Phorum too -- over there, a lot of people are focussing on Bree supposedly being a "liar" about Lucy being scheduled to go away. We really haven't even seen any behavior on Lucy's part yet which suggests any skeeviness there.

It isn't necessarily a lie on Bree's part.

Here's the timeline of the facts as we know them:


Lucy spends time with both Bree and her parents, discussing Bree's confusion about her religious future and assisting Bree learn her role in the ceremony. Among the things Lucy and Bree have discussed is Bree's disillusionment with her friend Daniel, and Bree's annoyance that Daniel is continuing to play James Bond and follow her about, snooping into her religious prep.

Daniel continues to both follow Bree and Lucy around, but films them secretly and posts videos about his activities, complete with paranoid commentary.

The ceremony comes off the single hitch that Daniel intruded and attempted to film it. AGAIN he posts a video full of paranoid commentary.

Bree tells us that Lucy is scheduled to leave to visit some other parishioners.

Prior to her departure, Lucy leaves the house on an errand, and comes home to discover from her computer and her browser history that someone has broken into her apartment but stole nothing. (Pattern Recognition, anyone?) This person has been still images of Daniel sneaking around spying on religious activities -- not still images of Daniel standing in line at McDonalds, hanging out with his buddies, or walking his dog.

Lucy of course quickly surmises that this must in fact be Daniel again. This is confirmed by yet another video upload with yet more uneasy raving. So now Daniel no only broke in, but he is broadcasting to the world that he broke in.

If you were in Lucy's position, knowing that this young girl you have come to appreciate and like is being stalked by an ex-friend, one who has been posting videos about his stalking (which is a subtle form of harrassment, whether Daniel understands that or not -- Bree obviously *does* perceive that), and now has progressed to breaking and entering the home of someone he has absolutely no connection to, and who has not threatened or approached him in any manner whatsoever -- would you be dancing off to other parishioners? Or would you go to warn Bree and her family that Daniel's behavior has taken a turn toward the criminal?


The problem here is that Daniel is operating WHOLLY on the assumption that something nefarious is going on, and is too irrational to step back and look at the pattern of his own behavior. We the audience ought to be detached enough to see things from all sides -- to recognize that Daniel's freaking out may be understandable, but also to recognize that his behavior is not productive, and his interpretation of events is irrational and unreliable.

[curiousgeorge]

joss said:

Is really that hard to conceive the idea of Bree happy the way she is now?

But yet the Creators have lead us down this path with HINTS of something bad. Most noticeably the injections are mentioned and the appearance of being drugged.

Maybe she IS happy, but I don't think that a religious group has any conceivable good reason to be injecting young ladies. I guess you could argue that the bandages were the result of vitamin shots given to boost energy levels for strenuous ceremonial antics, but I don't know that this has any basis in any "normal" religious practices.

I do think you have somewhat of a point, the Creators are teasing us with hints of "bad" things and allowing US to conjecture at will. Not a bad technique, but they have some 'splaining to do if this turns out to be an innocuous group.

I would note that they also implied some type of "bad" thing happened between Bree and a teacher and have yet to address this. I find this much more disturbing than anything attributed to the cult so far... And yes, I know that it is only the gossip of her classmates (teenage girls can be vicious with this kind of allegation), but they did put it in the script.

Why? To get the web tongues wagging.

[Joss]

The problem here is that Daniel is operating WHOLLY on the assumption that something nefarious is going on, and is too irrational to step back and look at the pattern of his own behavior. We the audience ought to be detached enough to see things from all sides -- to recognize that Daniel's freaking out may be understandable, but also to recognize that his behavior is not productive, and his interpretation of events is irrational and unreliable.

I'd wish my english was that good.. I couldn't think of any better words to describe the situation.

[Joss]

But yet the Creators have lead us down this path with HINTS of something bad. Most noticeably the injections are mentioned and the appearance of being drugged.

Well let me add some light to this.. Irons pills are taken in the event of blood loss or anemia. The spot where the supposed shot was given makes no sense with any blood samples taken, that would be in the inner side of the elbow. The upper arm is used to either inject IM vaccines or just the average vitamin shot.

We know Bree was following some kind of diet and most likely she would not have anything to eat in the last 24 before the ceremony so it makes all the sense to me that she's administered iron pills and vitamin shots.

In a pagan ceremony the participants must be clean inside and outside, that means among other things that their bowels must be empty.

There is another case in which that same treatment would be given: Big loss of blood while menstruating.

Ok.. She could be being drugged and raped and have her blood drained to be used in satanic sacrifices.. But this is not necessarily the most reasonable explanation.

[curiousgeorge]

joss said:

Ok.. She could be being drugged and raped and have her blood drained to be used in satanic sacrifices.. But this is not necessarily the most reasonable explanation.

Agreed.

I think that the bigger issue goes back to Noa's last post. We need to look beyond the hints and focus on the facts at all times. I like the idea that we can see through the perception of plot manipulation, but I have my doubts that they have the writing chops to 'splain it all away as innocuous at this point.

[jayhenry]

I also agree that we should focus on the facts. For example:

* Bree is homeschooled, despite her repeated wish to be in public school. She is homeschooled because of her "religion."

* Bree is intensely lonely. Her only friend is Daniel who her parents frequently ban from the house. She was not allowed to attend his graduation. She is not allowed to spend time with other friends. Bree is a child, not a prisoner, there's no excuse for this style of parenting under whatever religious auspices it occurs.

* Bree, all 97 pounds of her, had to go on a diet for a ceremony that she was not allowed to know anything about and that her parents were not allowed to know anything about.

* Bree, a 16-year-old girl, has a picture of Aleister Crowley, a drug-addict and practitioner of sex-magick on the wall of her bedroom in what appears to be a shrine. Many of the Occultists in our forums pointed out that this is not appropriate.

* She took shots and pills and had to make doctors visits, again for a ceremony about which she was allowed to know nothing.

* Bree herself said that the religion keeps secrets for a reason and that Daniel needs to be careful. Bree herself said it was dangerous!

None of this is to say anything about cult suicide, blood rituals, or Bree being pregnant. And none of this is to say anything about real practitioners of small religions. But, if we're supposed to treat everything the characters say and do as lies, we might as well assume that this story is about space monkeys who are attempting to take over Delaware and make it into a banana plantation.

It's not. The writers have chosen to tell us a story about a young girl in a cult. We can accept it, or we can move on, but we cannot change or ignore the facts of the first 54 videos.

[Joss]

Well.. Perhaps the issue is not what it is but what people wants it to be.

I guess that probably many people would love to see Bree being used as an offereing to some demoniac god and Daniel being right after all and becoming the hero that saves poor little Bree from the jaws of evil.. I'm sure that many people those shots being drug instead of vitamins would be good news.

But not to me, if there is anything at all that feels interesting about LG15 series is that it could be a real person having a real life.

If the story ever gets away from that path it will be of no more interest to me.

Perhaps I'm spoiling the fun to those who like it the other way.. But as long as there is anyone willing to discuss their perceptions about the factual events I'll be glad to join in and add my 2 cents.

[Joss]

we might as well assume that this story is about space monkeys who are attempting to take over Delaware and make it into a banana plantation.

May I add that those could actually be purple monkeys? ;D

[jayhenry]

joss said:

we might as well assume that this story is about space monkeys who are attempting to take over Delaware and make it into a banana plantation.

May I add that those could actually be purple monkeys? ;D

LOL, exactly!! Purple Monkey and The Other Monkey are the lynchpin of the LG is actually about spacemonkeys theory. And Thor and Owen are actually monkeys too. I will be very offended if The Creators make this into a euarchontacentric message of intolerance.

[noasinger]

If she had a picture of Jesus up on the wall, and the official website had the word "agape" in greek on its main page for many weeks, and the masthead for the official website had images of doves and crosses, it would not be unreasonable for people to intepret the contents of the story as an allegorical commentary on Christianity.

If she had a picture of Buddha, and the official website had the word "nirvana," and there were several lotuses and prayer hands and Ohms, it would not be unreasonable for people to interpret the contents of the story as an allegorical commentary on Buddhism.

If she had a picture of ... er, Torah scrolls, I guess, and the official website had the words "Baruch Hashem," and there were mezuzah and magen davids, it would not be unreasonable for people to intepret the contents of the story as an allegorical commentary on Judaism.

As it is, there is a picture of Crowley, there was the word "Thelema," and the masthead has several Thelemic stars. So it is not unreasonable for people to intepret the contents of the story as a commentary on the actual religion Thelema.


And, again, happily, they seem to be stepping away from sourcing the implied danger within "mainstream" Thelema, and exploring instead a more extreme sub-group -- something which all religions spawn.



(Lots of 16 year old girls had pictures of Kurt Cobain on their walls too -- he was a drug addict. And believe me, some of them lit candles to him and made something very like a religious shrine when he killed himself. I'm not sure why there ought to be particular significance to Crowley having been an addict.

[curiousgeorge]

Noa, Jay, Joss:

I think we are going off thread here, but I will continue anyway. (Because I am a funky monkey who bends the rules)

I think that we are ALL right about where the storyline is going. Jay's points are salient, as are you other two.

MY point is that I am doubtful that Mesh can resolve all the dangling perceptions of "bad" stuff going on in a plausible manner. Just not addressing them is not acceptable. The X-Files show took a lot of flack because they failed to resolve all the dangling plot threads without explanation. I just don't see how he can pull this off, given the short format of a YT style vlog. If he does, I don't see how it will not seem forced and will not leave the (especially) phorum kidz totally pissed off.

Perhaps he can split the difference between false expectations and rational explanation. The continuity errors Jay has pointed out in earlier posts do give me pause that he may not be able to pull this off though... Fanwanking excepted.

ETA: Joss, we use a LOT of LG15 and other www slang here. As English is not your first language, let us know and we will clarify. HTH (see, there I go)

[Joss]

At this very moment I was thinking just that.

I'll be asking.. I promise!

[flwright]

Apologies for WOT (Way off thread)...

Excellent source for New English:

Urban Dictionary

Excellent source for Breenglish:

The Richard Phillips Feynman Memorial Library

Any we hope you contribute there too!

FLWright