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Post by toomuchtime on Sept 23, 2006 17:05:09 GMT -5
Great investigating noasinger and socalgardengirl!
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Post by curiousgeorge on Sept 23, 2006 17:15:07 GMT -5
Even though this thing was loaded with obvious clues... "..there's a lot of debate about it...and it turns out all the guesses were wrong That's some pointed editorial commentary right there. I think this was not just a shout out to us, it was a major taunt! I kinda like that... Bring it on, that's fighting language over at The Dragonfly! |
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watson
Anchor Cove Resident
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Post by watson on Sept 23, 2006 17:33:02 GMT -5
 Wow, this is some great detective work, you guys are dabbling in linguistics and indology now. Well-deserved karma to Christopher (unfortunately I don't have unlimited karma-endowing power to give one to Noasinger.) But just because Enochian is read from right to left, doesn't mean you speak it in reverse order, or display the characters backwards in time, right? That's why I think Chris's suggestion is plausible. Or maybe both of you are right, and we are meant to read the letters as both krsa and asrk. I just posted this on the lg15 site...thought it could be useful I just found this: vedabase.net/sb/8/8/41-46/enwhich is a translation of a passage from the hindu bible. It says krsa means very lean and thin. I also read on wikipedia that crowley was into krishna and hinduism. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KrishnaIt may be something or may be nothing. Okay -- got an interesting coincidence: Mesh's dad is an expert in Sanskrit, so Mesh would likely have at least some exposure to that language. Enochian is written right to left. The enochian letters, read right to left, are ASRK. Now back to vedabase. www.vedabase.net/a/asrkAsrk in Sanskrit means "blood." Again with the blood!
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syncomm
Anchor Cove Resident
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Post by syncomm on Sept 23, 2006 17:54:17 GMT -5
(Didn't some people mention Enochian that when she first mentioned a "language not spoke in thousands . .. " in a prior video). I wouldn't think so, because Enochian is not a historical spoken language. It originated with Dr. John Dee sometime in the Renaissance. Enochian is used by a number of Hermetic systems (there are even Enochian systems of ceremonial magic based entirely on the Enochian keys) and it was influenced by several languages. You can even hear a sample in the recordings of Crowley (collected together in a CD called "The Great Beast Speaks" which may or may not still be available.) |
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graverubber
Cove Jr. Detective
Don't Mess With The Bes!
Posts: 42
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Post by graverubber on Sept 23, 2006 18:06:37 GMT -5
this an important observation, and an obvious hole in the plot. this i why i never put much credence in the idea that the language would be enochian.
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Post by Tempestarii on Sept 23, 2006 20:39:51 GMT -5
(Didn't some people mention Enochian that when she first mentioned a "language not spoke in thousands . .. " in a prior video). I wouldn't think so, because Enochian is not a historical spoken language. It originated with Dr. John Dee sometime in the Renaissance. Enochian is used by a number of Hermetic systems (there are even Enochian systems of ceremonial magic based entirely on the Enochian keys) and it was influenced by several languages. You can even hear a sample in the recordings of Crowley (collected together in a CD called "The Great Beast Speaks" which may or may not still be available.) An extremely good point! Karma fondles to you. Enochian is only Elizabathan and as I mentioned before on one of my rants such a well educated girl would not consider Enochian some ancient language. And an earlier video did cut off the age of the language..."A language that has not been spoken in...CUT" Another gaping plot hole though the creators do seem to be scrabbling to find some basis for their occult idea. |
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Post by noasinger on Sept 23, 2006 21:29:48 GMT -5
(Didn't some people mention Enochian that when she first mentioned a "language not spoke in thousands . .. " in a prior video). I wouldn't think so, because Enochian is not a historical spoken language. It originated with Dr. John Dee sometime in the Renaissance. Enochian is used by a number of Hermetic systems (there are even Enochian systems of ceremonial magic based entirely on the Enochian keys) and it was influenced by several languages. You can even hear a sample in the recordings of Crowley (collected together in a CD called "The Great Beast Speaks" which may or may not still be available.) But what's important is that Golden Dawn people believe Enochian is an actual spiritual language which was dictaed to John Dee. It's the same as many (but not all) Wiccans believing that their religion has an unbroken germ of survival from the paleolithic times, and Mormons believing that an angel really did dictate the Book of Mormon to Joseph Smith, and Muslims believing that an angel really did dictate the Qu'ran to Mohammed, and cassieiswatching fans believing that that video series really was created by Miles and Mesh. So Bree would naturally refer to Enochian as an ancient lost language (some believe it might be the Atlantean language) because that is her perception of it. |
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Post by Tempestarii on Sept 23, 2006 21:53:37 GMT -5
Noa:
Wiccans do not believe this ( 15 year olds raised on websites perhaps). They believe that Gardner and Crowley formulated a working magickal system based on folk tradition (the fundamental circle casting of Wicca being a dumbed down version of the LBRP however) and in following the rites they are paying homage to older systems. Gardner after an infamous rift with fellow creators went onto claim it was paleolithic.
Thelemites do not believe Enochian is a true language as no human can know the voice of YHVH, hence Metatron, it is another magickal set of calls as are the vibrational words of the GD, ogham, tattwa, runes... images and sounds designed to slip ones mind into the ideal state to access other planes. Symbolic references of a series of gateways or states of Will. Dee is believed by some to have accessed a language which worked exceedingly well to slip the mind into the needed state.
Personally I find Enochian hokum as it strikes me as amusing that said Angels demanded Dee and his partner to wife-swap but it is all about belief systems. If enough people invest sheer will into an alphabet, it takes on power. Cue the Chaote system.
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Post by noasinger on Sept 23, 2006 22:21:10 GMT -5
I'll take your word for the sensible and knowledgeable rank-and-file people you know in both traditions, and that they are more respresentative of the day to day experiences than what we see on the web. But, that said, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn website and several of the other websites I was looking at yesterday and today present the "angels dictated the language" story uncritically and without comment. Several years ago in college when I was exploring Wicca -- again online -- I was taking a webcourse on it (Starhawk and Margot Adler were both required reading), and I was tossed out of the course for suggesting that the Margaret Murray thesis was inaccurate, and that Wicca is a modern syncretistic religion.
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Post by Imparfaite on Sept 23, 2006 23:33:49 GMT -5
Dunno if this is important or anything, but I found this bit about Thelemic ceremonies: "Language is also easy to see. In ceremonial magick, Latin, Greek, Hebrew and other languages are used. This takes the practitioners out of their normal perception. When opening the Enochian universe, a completely different language is utilized. Other times we use different forms of language like antiquarian styles (look at various scriptures) or rearrange the syntax (like poetry). I think music would also fall under this section; hymns, chanting, singing, instrumentation. All these are forms of “language” and help to delineate the separateness and sacredness." If this is true and the language is Enochian, which I also believe to be true, then this could be a slight mistake since this article from a Thelemic says Enochian is used but not typically in ceremony. Unless I'm reading that totally wrong. Also, my theory on Bree saying that she has to memorize texts in a language not spoke for "thousands of years" she could be exaggerating. Like people might say, "I haven't eaten in forever" or "I haven't seen you in a million years!" Especially since it's a rather obscure language, that could also be the reasoning for saying that. Dunno if that's been mentioned before, but it's my thought on the matter. I'm not sure if anyone has found this website before, but the whole article is worth reading. It mentions that merely even a corner of a room can serve as a place in which to worship/meditate/whatever. I am wondering if it has to do with where the board of pictures is and maybe even in the one video, at the end with the lemonade, she stands in that corner. Just a thought. I had a bunch of thoughts coming at once, figured it best to record them before I forgot! Here's the article. Well worth reading: www.thelema.nu/archives/41 |
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Post by jamfind on Sept 24, 2006 0:34:44 GMT -5
I didn't want to post this suggestion in the religion section as we seem to have many clues about Bree's religion in this video. Has anyone considered Discordianism, or elements of discordianism in Bree's religion? www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Discordianism Discordianism is a modern, chaos-based religion founded in either 1958 or 1959. It has been described as both an elaborate joke disguised as a religion, and as a religion disguised as an elaborate joke.
-According to the Principia Discordia, POEE is "a tribe of philosophers, theologians, magicians, scientists, artists, clowns, and similar maniacs who are intrigued by Eris goddess of confusion and her doings." Furthermore it states that "POEE subscribes to the Law Of Fives of Omar's sect" and "POEE also recognizes the Holy 23."
-The belief that "order is true" and disorder is false or somehow wrong, is the Aneristic Illusion. To say the same of disorder, is the Eristic Illusion.
-Discordianism as a religion
While it is unclear whether Discordianism was originally intended to be taken seriously, a number of its members are still active in the Discordian Movement and consider themselves to be practicing Discordians. While Discordianism is separate from modern neopaganism, a number of neopagans have incorporated elements of Discordianism into their beliefs . As I stated in the LG15 forum, it would seem like we are being played by the creators. (In any other situation in life, I would be frustrated and angry. However, I enjoy this confusion.) Reality and truth are mixed up in this LG15 world. The truth is false, yet at the same time, true. It is a world of discord, indeed. I'm sure I'm way off, but I thought I'd throw it out there. |
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Post by dharmabum420 on Sept 24, 2006 3:46:39 GMT -5
As a proud Pope of Discordia... Discordia is just fucking with you. Serious neopagans which talk about Discordia are disillusioned. Discordians talking about neopaganism are... fucking with you. The whole point of Discordia is to be what they aren't. Don't trust or believe anything they say. Or believe it all, it's funnier that way.
Markoff Chaney is God, Discordia is gobshite, and can someone pass me a hash-apple?
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Post by jamfind on Sept 24, 2006 9:42:32 GMT -5
dharmabum420 wrote: As a proud Pope of Discordia... Discordia is just fucking with you. Serious neopagans which talk about Discordia are disillusioned. Discordians talking about neopaganism are... fucking with you. The whole point of Discordia is to be what they aren't. Don't trust or believe anything they say. Or believe it all, it's funnier that way. My point exactly, dharmabaum420. Or is it not my point? I am believing, yet not believing. Hmmm. I need coffee (no hashapples here.)  |
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Post by noasinger on Sept 24, 2006 9:53:38 GMT -5
Perhaps what you really need is.... SLACK!
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Post by jamfind on Sept 24, 2006 10:02:35 GMT -5
What is SLACK?
I'm sorry, but I'm pretty clueless.
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Wow, this is some great detective work, you guys are dabbling in linguistics and indology now. Well-deserved karma to Christopher (unfortunately I don't have unlimited karma-endowing power to give one to Noasinger.)
