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Post by hyemew on Dec 8, 2006 10:14:04 GMT -5
With all due respect to your arguement, there was nothing about The Order for like the first 30 episodes (the best ones), and wasn't touched on for various episodes in the 40s, so that's a good 1 hour that has nothing to do with this "movie". Other than that I of course agree with the gist of what you say and that they REALLY need to move this forward.
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aishapup
Anchor Cove Jr. Resident
KissyDog says "carpe diem, catfish, catgirls and catboys and of course catnippers and catpups"
Posts: 22
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Post by aishapup on Dec 8, 2006 10:29:41 GMT -5
What is strange to me is that Mesh CAN tell interesting stories, look at his movie Pond 2004 for instance. Have you guys seen it?
Besides a compelling story, is the lack of real engagement - the key ingredient I'd like from my friends ( oh not fans! )
Take also for instance the radical difference between the quality of posts here on the cove vs the stuff on the LGphorum. I'd much rather have quality vs quantity.
aisha%> smiles, then warmly embraces all her 11 anchor cove mates one by one
Milowent Curiousgeorge JayHenry Hymew Alissa Noasinger Joss Terryfic VanillaFlava Buka
aisha%> ~* nacen flores en mi cuerpo qual jardin *~ aisha%> ~* te mando senales de humo *~ aisha%> ( oh pm buka for KlubBuka invitations ) aisha%> ah and of course if I forgot you, PM please!
aisha **** * * * *
( ... pup curls up and dreams of snausage and the new ninja sword buka has promised her for christmas ... )
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buka
Cove Jr. Detective
Tell Stories @agentidea.com
Posts: 49
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Post by buka on Dec 8, 2006 11:28:20 GMT -5
oh aish, leave my terminal alone, lets go out for some brekkie ( .. grunts, kicks the stoli bottle away from the bed, and check's messages from Moscow HQ and heads out into the woods, puppy wagging her tail happily behind .. ) ah, ja, KlubBuka, ja, not for the feint at heart! C Ya soon!
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Post by VanillaFlava on Dec 8, 2006 12:31:00 GMT -5
Oh, I am not an AishaPup CoveMate(tm) Uhm, I guess ... I will have to catch up on my CIW / OAPHID then and slum with the phorum phans.
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Post by noasinger on Dec 8, 2006 13:00:45 GMT -5
Okay, here we go.
Pretty much all along, the "vision" touted by Miles has been some alleged innovations in interactive storytelling. It hasn't been the wonderfulness of Mesh's characters, nor cleverness of plot, nor even the newness of delivering their story over the internet. The polestar, and the unique selling point, has been the wonderful interactivity and the dream of "join us and we'll blur the lines and journey together."
This has always been dependent upon having certain tools available to the fans via an integrated and integrative website, as Miles has repeatedly promised.
There's nothing unique about being able to post response videos or being able to offer commentary on a forum or even being able to sit through an excrutiatingly poorly run chat experience (of which there was another last night).
There's nothing unique about claiming fan influence. Honestly, I am a bit doubtful about whether the fans actually drove any "addition" of a romantic element based on their YouTube comments; the fetishistic imagery of the Swimming and Hiking videos themselves, upon review, drove the audience along those lines of thought. Even if there had truly been no plan for Daniel to have feelings for Bree, the notion of fan commentary influencing the further development of the story is not an innovation. GrapeJam did it with The Spot years ago. DC Comics did it with the infamous "Death of Robin" stunt years ago. For that matter, Charles Dickens was using the same technique over a HUNDRED years ago, when he released his stories serially and would haunt coffeeshops to listen for what people were saying about it.
There's nothing *especially* unique, even, in setting up parallel writing teams and interweaving their stories. Sam7 is doing this. Some television miniseries have done this. IronSink is doing this. Shared world anthologies and fan-based storytelling clubs and performance art collectives have been doing this for years, and it's a technique which has always been eminently adaptable to a visual storytelling format.
So, so far we have an interesting and at time enjoyable series to follow coming from Telegraph Avenue, but nothing actually innovative or new, and as yet no actual "new" art form. All of the strengths displayed so far have come from *Mesh's* character development (in exclusion to the newer writers' less developed skills), and from Miles and the rest of the team's sheer drive and stick-to-it-iveness.
Obviously, great portions of the audience are beginning to feel that the strain the team is operating under these days is damaging the project. Miles does actually rather graciously admit this may be true.
But my opinion is that it never had to be this way.
*The* selling point has always been the Interactivity Vision. As project manager, Miles could have/should have foregrounded that aspect of the larger production. The best resource they could have had at their disposal was a website that could have delivered on at least some of the Vision as early as late August or mid September -- not some half-assed forum figureheaded by a scapegoat who wasn't even the person everyone thought it was. This needed to be addressed especially once the first generation of fans deserted the original Forum to build what would become Anchor Cove -- yes, Rancor Cove if you like; gogo had a point however painful.
They had that skillset at one point. They had it when it would have been hugely useful.
It's no great secret that there was some unpleasantness. The actual details are nobody's business; there are some personal and political clashes in most new business ventures, even ones better organized than this was in the beginning. I am certain that some fault lies in all directions; Yousefgate is a strong indicator that there is still plenty of room on the team to stumble, and may suggest that they learned something about the dangers of losing an important piece of the picture.
For whatever reason, they lost that software skillset during midsummer. Despite what these two comedians are teasing me about, those skills never *needed* to reside in Bukanator. They happened to at one time. Jason might be a talented young man, but he isn't yet up to the task. That FUNCTION, those skills were what was important.
At that point, in my opinion, Miles should have looked again at the team, where they were going, and slowed down the pace of the actual shoots and releases until they could shore up a critical gap in their capabilities. We can all listen to claims of "hindsight," and "oh, they got caught unawares when it seemed they were going to be exposed and then all the publicity happened, and it's not really their fault they had to keep chatting up interactivity blah blah blah when they had nothing much to show for that" and "well they were rocking the deal with Revver."
I respectfully call a little bullshit on that. If Miles had solved the problem by finding another strong candidate to build the website back in late summer and early fall, we wouldn't now have had another two and a half months of repeated promises that the gee-whiz innovations are just around the corner, or that corner, or maybe in a couple of months. Potential backers wouldn't have had to see that either. They might not be in quite these financial straits if they had made absolutely certain they could deliver on the Vision well before now. They might not have felt the need to write themselves into these pinchy little corners in a bid to hold audience attention. They might not have felt the need to jump so quickly to try to court the fickle ARG audience.
The big resource they squandered was actually the centerpiece of the Vision. The big mistake was not fixing that ASAP, by any means necessary.
This is no deathknell -- I do believe that they will finally manage to get all the little ducks in a row. But it has been frustrating to watch and to participate in all of this. This whole discussion is hugely frustrating to those of us put some of our trust in the project early on. We are aware that headstrong visionary Miles was warned some of this could happen, playing with audience expectations so early and inviting scrutiny when the full product wasn't ready to be delivered.
It still isn't being delivered, and it didn't have to be this way.
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Post by milowent on Dec 8, 2006 13:28:41 GMT -5
The big resource they squandered was actually the centerpiece of the Vision. The big mistake was not fixing that ASAP, by any means necessary. Excellent defense, really, Noa. I never really put it together that way in my head, but i agree. It appears there WAS some recognition at the outset that the vaunted and super-hyped interactivity component required advanced computer skills. But when that skillset was lost, a vaccum remained, and wasn't filled. To relate to my profession, its the small company president that decides to show up in court by himself, gets his hat handed to him, and cries 'but i'm not a lawyer!' well, if the stakes are big, you don't go to court without one. that president actually knows this deep down inside, but other things that he does know how to do always seem more important to him, and he minimizes the importance of areas where he is not skilled . ... and snarky hilarity ensues. .... aisha%> smiles, then warmly embraces all her 10 anchor cove mates one by one now that's interactivity. thanks.
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Post by lesbrent on Dec 8, 2006 15:07:37 GMT -5
it's exclusion, not interactivity boo hoo! j/k
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Post by milowent on Dec 8, 2006 15:12:22 GMT -5
it's exclusion, not interactivity boo hoo! j/k actually, it's $5 to buka's paypal. :-)
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Post by thiller on Dec 8, 2006 16:03:22 GMT -5
All of these posts bring up some very interesting and thoughtful points. I am not sure if this is the place for this question, so ignore, tell me to ask somewhere else or answer. What do you think the interactivity will really entail?
I understand that some pretty advanced technical skills will be needed (just looking at the difficulty of the first chat, which is not a very innovative platform). I am rather uncertain of what they are promising.
(FYI) Edited to add: I reposted this question as a reply to Terryfic's post about interaction and the audience's emotional connection to the characters and story.
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Post by Terryfic on Dec 8, 2006 16:28:52 GMT -5
Thiller, you raise a question that I have been very curious about for a long time. I read a lot of people writing about how interactive storytelling is really new and exciting, but rarely go into details as to just what it is they are excited about. I would really like to hear from anyone that is excited about interactivity explain explicitly what it is you are looking for. I doubt Miles hangs around these parts anymore (if ever), but if he were to make a post that didn’t just say exciting things are coming, but actually outlined in detail just what these exciting things are then I would have a lot more faith in them. Edit: Haha, it looks like while I was typing this thriller just asked the same question in my thread. It would likely make more sense to continue discussion there. alissabrooke.proboards56.com/index.cgi?board=other&action=display&thread=1165517229&page=1
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flwright
I Know More About Internet Video Than Wikipedia
Human Bean
Form follows function
Posts: 365
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Post by flwright on Dec 8, 2006 18:29:16 GMT -5
aisha%> smiles, then warmly embraces all her 10 anchor cove mates one by one milowent curiousgeorge jayhenry hymew alissa noasinger joss terryfic buka Does 10 mean there's room for one more or does it mean there's seven too many? Woof, FLWright
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aishapup
Anchor Cove Jr. Resident
KissyDog says "carpe diem, catfish, catgirls and catboys and of course catnippers and catpups"
Posts: 22
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Post by aishapup on Dec 8, 2006 18:51:35 GMT -5
Oh, I am not an AishaPup CoveMate(tm) aisha%> karmalizes VanillaFlava and offers some warm beer aisha%> fixes edit above to reflect the proper tribe, so now it's 12. aisha%> sorry aisha%> or 13 depending on how Flywright argues the case for inclusion aisha%> ( ... cannot remember Flywright too clearly ... too much for a shiba pups circuits ... pls send/resend introduction bits ...)
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aishapup
Anchor Cove Jr. Resident
KissyDog says "carpe diem, catfish, catgirls and catboys and of course catnippers and catpups"
Posts: 22
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Post by aishapup on Dec 8, 2006 19:01:06 GMT -5
it's exclusion, not interactivity boo hoo! j/k Hi Lesbrent, sure ... ? Just though interactivity means more than just a friend request acceptance. I'll happily hear your case too, Lesbrent But the ones who made the list either PM me, mail me or call me on the phone periodically/often, so now that is ENGAGEMENT or INTERACTIVITY
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Post by curiousgeorge on Dec 8, 2006 19:08:36 GMT -5
I think you were right on target Noa. Whatever the reason for the loss of a strong IT component in the group, they should have done an immediate replacement. Here we are x amount of time after the outing in which they claimed (paraphrasing) "hey, cut us some slack we are video guys, not IT people" and they STILL do not have a strong IT person.
I sure what's his name is a nice guy, but they need a PRO. Instead of hiring more writers and other folks, they should have invested in someone who has the IT chops to really harness unique and engaging interactive features that might live up to their hype.
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Post by lesbrent on Dec 8, 2006 20:04:54 GMT -5
it's exclusion, not interactivity boo hoo! j/k Hi Lesbrent, sure ... ? Just though interactivity means more than just a friend request acceptance. I'll happily hear your case too, Lesbrent But the ones who made the list either PM me, mail me or call me on the phone periodically/often, so now that is ENGAGEMENT or INTERACTIVITY Dear puppy, I was only a lurker in the very beginning but have participated here more and more. Alas, you don't seem to be around much anymore to be interactive with! I missed the bus or you're running with the pack, I'm not sure which. I think I've only seen you twice in the chat in the past couple months. I don't know you and you don't know me so I don't have to be included in your doggie circle! However, that isn't to say that I'm not interested in your master's project and would love to learn more about it! Sincerely with doggie snuggles, Leslie
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