Be Part of Something [05.28.07]

[ApotheosisAZ]

curiousgeorge said:

ETA: Apo thinks the arrangements may be shoddy at best. I hope they c's take good care of these people and nobody gets abducted, for real... I trust his assessment.

Milo, your thoughts on safety?

I think that in light of the way this invitation was leaked, and the lack of explanation from The Creators about it until many hours later, indicates a lack of adequate planning for this event.

I screamed "gamejack" when I saw it because it was so badly managed. I have apologized for that, but now I have been complaining all afternoon about whether or not they have provided security for this event. I really believe my concern is valid.

I don't criticize them lightly.

[robtomorrow]

tempestarii said:

Hooked, I disagree it was dropped due to Thelemites taking offence. They dropped that angle way before vocal 'Thelemites' within the main forum complained. Imo it was glossed over due to a sheer lack of knowledge. I joined the original forum to mention her altar was no such thing and many threads were based on the occult aspects and pulling the schlock occult theme to pieces. They knew they did not have enough knowledge upon the OTO, A.'.A.'., Hastor, etc to continue that plot without it being seen as B movie.

The Occult aspects may have been schlock, as with most things LG15, and it is a B movie, but I agree with Hooked that Thelema was dropped because of the Thelemites, Tannhaus in particular, he posted his first video blog attacking LG15 on Oct 18, that would of been soon after the "ceremony". He was conplaining in the forum weeks before that. Then he thanked the creators when through Gemma they disavowed the Thelema connection.

Now recently they have decided to bring back Crowley and Thelema in the HoO, with the quote, and the Unicursal Hexagram, which then caused Tannhaus to hemorrhage.

[Tempestarii]

Now recently they have decided to bring back Crowley and Thelema in the HoO, with the quote, and the Unicursal Hexagram

They are 'taking from many religions'. Bah! As in continuation of using the A.'.A.'. symbol still on the site logo as they plead ignorance. Truly removing themselves from Crowley would be removing that symbol. As ever they prove they have no knowledge of Thelema vs A.'.A.'. also.

I do think the writers (sorry, I get sick of seeing creators everywhere) do not give a flying frell about a minority complaining and it was a real minority on the forum. After all who can sue them? Tannhaus??
I simply cannot comprehend they would be so thoughtful as to remove the plot from Crowley to please some stray forum voices. They give us an underage girl taking part in the abduction of another minor and guns.
In my opinion it is far more realistic to view it as they knew they had no knowledge to base an occult plot on and were being attacked for glaring errors, and they would alienate any middle american sponsors.
Though suprising that if they want parents to approve of their children watching this then they include adult themes. Surely the demographic that sponsors aim for is under 16?

Random amusing tidbit: I remember when a major poster on the ye olde controlled by Buka forum claimed it was ALL created to turn kids to Satanism and some voices agreed. Ah, those were the days.....wild accusations and belief in conspiracies. I miss that!! Once upon a time a phan would not know who Crowley was.....innocent days.

[curiousgeorge]

apotheosisaz said:

[
I think that in light of the way this invitation was leaked, and the lack of explanation from The Creators about it until many hours later, indicates a lack of adequate planning for this event.

I screamed "gamejack" when I saw it because it was so badly managed. I have apologized for that, but now I have been complaining all afternoon about whether or not they have provided security for this event. I really believe my concern is valid.

I don't criticize them lightly.

Logistically, I would think that the biggest issues is how to control the crowd who will not be let in the event.

Think Bree Chat Disaster. Live.

Their track record on contingency planning is not so stellar. I dunno, maybe I attended too many concerts years ago and saw what happened when things went awry in even small venues.

It was smart to have the event during the daytime, this should help keep the crowd down and dissuade school-age kidz from showing up.

[milowent]

apotheosisaz said:

curiousgeorge said:

ETA: Apo thinks the arrangements may be shoddy at best. I hope they c's take good care of these people and nobody gets abducted, for real... I trust his assessment.

Milo, your thoughts on safety?

I think that in light of the way this invitation was leaked, and the lack of explanation from The Creators about it until many hours later, indicates a lack of adequate planning for this event.

I screamed "gamejack" when I saw it because it was so badly managed. I have apologized for that, but now I have been complaining all afternoon about whether or not they have provided security for this event. I really believe my concern is valid.

I don't criticize them lightly.

notwithstanding apo's valid statements, i guess i'm naive enough to think no one's gonna die if they show up to this thing. disappointed maybe, but not harmed.

[trash180]

I'm sure they'll be some of those badass watchers there for crowd control. Those guys can take a punch to the face from Jonas TKO!

Can someone at least go shoot some video? I'm wondering what will happen. It is kinda funny that their arg involves joining a cult. Think Bree will be there?

[hyemew]

Seeing this is a limited event based on its location, I don't think there will be an insane amount of people there. I'd guess 50 at most- but more like 20 I'm thinking...

[lesbrent]

well let me ask the dumb question ... obviously only people that live near were invited?

[milowent]

lesbrent said:

well let me ask the dumb question ... obviously only people that live near were invited?

presumably so. the questionairre asked about peoples' location, and IP addresses could have been used to confirm.

[Alissa Brooke]

Ugh. Why can't they have it in Boston or New York.

[ApotheosisAZ]

The C's just posted this announcement:

"Hey everyone,

I just wanted to inform you all that The Hymn of One Seminar is only for people that are 18 and older, or, if you are under 18, you must be accompanied by a parent/guardian. I am sorry if this inconveniences anyone.

Thank you for your understanding,

Greg"

This event has obviously been very poorly planned. Can you say "damage control?"

[curiousgeorge]

My guess is that they figured out that the risk of having minors on hand was not worth the extra security it would take to insure the kid's safety. Organizational skills have never been these folks strong point.

I think this does prompt a train of thought on the issues of adults interacting with minors online, and then turning that into the "real world". Can you imagine the Dateline Teaser:

"Today, the three producers of LG15 (shot of three grown men) sent out email invitations to (pick a number) underage fans in the LA area to join then in an (snide TV reporter voice) Interactive Event. The children's parent's were not informed of this event by the producers...."

I could go on, but you get my drift.

Now, the engaging line of questioning to me is: Is this any different that posting a handbill on a telephone poll advertising an all ages concert? Hmmmmm.

OK, how about an ad in the newspaper?

OK, how about a personal letter or Fed Ex?

OK, how about a web posting?

OK, how about a phone call from Miles?

Would it be any different if the call was made by Yousef or Jess???

And then we are back to sending e-mails....

Forget the legal issues, I'm more interested in the ethical or PR issues. And yes, as a parent these kind of things strike a chord with me. I'm not sure where I would draw the line, but to me the emails (phone calls would bring out the real world SLF!) would not be acceptable as a parent.

I dunno, I subscribe to several band email lists and I get prompts from them all the time to attend various gigs. Mostly in bars though, where (theoretically) minors are not an issue.

I would think that this would be an issue with any ARG where producers prompt fans to "do things" in the real world.

Thoughts?

[hyemew]

Seriously, imagine little kids going up to shady looking people in dark suits hanging out near the event- whom they take to be actors dressed up as watchers. They strike up a conversation and are invited into the car with them, and believing it to be part of the game they follow.

Next thing you know the Creators are staring down a stiff jail sentence.

[elixir]

I have had the same thoughts about ARGs and of getting people to go to specific locations. In some ways I'm in two minds about it. Yes, it is fun for real life viewers to interact by retrieving drops or getting messages, and it's exciting to watch these things unfold but in my mind it does spell trouble. There is the potential here for criminal or psycho or something to get in on the idea of ARGs and entice people to join in, and then take advantage of these people.

I guess for something like Lonelygirl, it is a bit safer because we know who the creators are - they've had a lot of media attention and they have come out with a message confirming that they are behind this meet up, so it is in the public eye.

But I've wondered about all of the spin-off ARGs before, such as CiW - as we never know who is behind those. When Jeromy came out as the creator of Maddison Atkins he said that it was important for him to not confirm or disavow any of the Maddison spin-offs because he wanted to encourage creativity and for the Maddison world to expand with the fans. He said it was fair, because the LG creators didn't come out and say Maddison wasn't a part of the Breeinverse, and therefore things were able to take off.

I asked him if he thought this was wise, because if any of the Maddison spin-offs turned out to be dangerous he could find himself in trouble, and his reply was that he can only say that he is the creator of Maddison Atkins, and nothing else.

I think this whole issue is controversial. If only there was no such thing as psychos, terrorists, rapists, and kidnappers we could just have fun with ARGs! But the truth is that there is an ugly side to the world and ARG players can leave themselves open to being put in danger.

[ApotheosisAZ]

I think by now that most of you know I am an ARG fan.

If done properly, they are fun and challenging. If they are done improperly... I'll just point to CG's and Hye's posts above.

Hye's potential scenario is chilling, and it should be a wakeup call. There was never any chance that these e-mails were going to remain a secret. A predator might very well have attempted to use this "secret invitation" for nefarious purposes, were it not for The C's last minute fix.