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Post by VanillaFlava on Sept 19, 2006 17:55:53 GMT -5
While the Dickens thing is indeed really cool, I am not so sure that is what they are proposing. At least from their announcements it seems that they not only want to take the opinions of people and then incorporate it into their canon version, but possibly allow paralles stories that are fan created.
Although, I am starting to lean toward's Temp's impression on the current state.
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Post by jayhenry on Sept 26, 2006 10:57:52 GMT -5
Are there any notable examples of a literary, film or art project where fan fiction was incorporated into the canon? And where the incorporation of fan fiction was one purpose of the project?
It seems that the problem with the model, fairly obviously, is that the fans aren't going to be as creative or talented as whatever they're copying and if they were that creative, they'd create their own project.
Does anybody want random fans to create characters? I mean, naming a teddy bear is one thing, but having some fake person you create actually enter the Breeniverse is something else. Would anyone want Paul and Andrea to become characters in the universe?
What if Paul has an ornery streak, and decides to kill Andrea, because he's actually an evil super-villlain? Once Bree has accepted that other characters are real, how would she then divorce them if they do something stupid?
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Post by milowent on Sept 26, 2006 16:20:50 GMT -5
Are there any notable examples of a literary, film or art project where fan fiction was incorporated into the canon? Um, the Bible? The book of daniel, that was "fiction" meant to look much older that got incorporated into the Bible. Please don't hurt me people - its just a thought. Religions and their governing texts do change over time based on the input of their believers. you mean no one is going to watch my p monkey spinoffs: "P Monkey reads the phonebook, parts 1-576" No, probably not. Even that joke wasn't very funny. We really saw this with Cassie already, didn't we. I wonder now if Cassie was dangled with the express purpose of creating some fan fiction (I'm sure this has been discussed in the Cassieiswatchingverse, but I don't stay up on that.) The Creators have already commented on how they liked the Bree's Brother videos. Maybe they could accept video responses, or really "proposed video segments" that are eligible for possible incorporation in some way into new videos. E.g., Paul and Andrea mimic a phone call to Daniel and Bree with some proposed plotline, and if it is picked up, part of their actual video gets incorporated into a future Bree video using that plotline. Then the Creators can closely pick what gets adopted.
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Post by VanillaFlava on Sept 26, 2006 16:35:47 GMT -5
I think Jay's got some good points there. The problem is not only letting something into the canon, but also how to divorce yourself from it again.
Yes, there are plenty of examples of collaborative story-telling. Usually in a role-playing kind of context. Been around for quite a while. I am not necessarily talking about WoW kind of RPG, but the story-telling kind either played in person or using a technology like MUDs or other persistant worlds.
The difference is, the experience is created and consumed on the spot. Generally, you are either there, or you miss it. There is no audience. So, this is slightly different.
What, I believe is fundamental though, is that you have some kind of game master, or arbiter. Somebody who calls something foul or fair play. Otherwise it will spin out of control and there will be no way to introduce continuity.
I also think, that we will never see a complete meshing of stories. Simply because the actors are paid to show up on time and do their job. Fans are not and could stop posting at any moment. So, by necessity, you cannot make a fan character pivotal to the plot. It would all break apart, if say, the Fan Cult Leader, simply cannot show up for the Ceremony because he decided his hot r/l date was slightly more important than the Breeverse.
I am also pretty convinced that Cassie was a sort of carrot to give people an idea of the possibilities and get them excited about the medium. I think it was supposed to be a rabbit hole in more than the ARG sense. I don't really follow it, because of the crowd and the lameness of the latest developments.
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Post by noasinger on Sept 26, 2006 17:41:10 GMT -5
Actually, all of the canon of Judeo-Christian scriptures involve "fan fiction." All of the gospels, canon and apocryphal, were important to their own cultural subgroups before becoming famous. The Torah appears stitched together from the work of at least four authors -- one of whom may have been a noblewoman who tailored her versions of the traditional stories to show off women as the clever behind-the-scenes decision makers. Esther appears to be an adapted Persian folktale, and most of the Jesus mythology is a marriage of Moses motifs with common pagan sacrificial god imagery.
Fascinating stuff.
cassieiswatching may be more instructive than they want to admit. They failed to label it non-canon until it had developed a huge and devoted following, and now, the majority of the dedicated fans seem to believe that it either *is* canon behind a smokescreen, or that they can will it into canon by the loudness of their shouting.
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Post by noasinger on Sept 26, 2006 22:49:01 GMT -5
The biggest problem with the chupacabra is that that series attempts to shape the LG15 world in some definitive ways. It makes solid, driving assumptions about Bree's religion (they're an evil! murderous! cult! about whom Bible! Believers! Have! Been! Warned!) and about LG15 locations (Daniel mysteriously took Bree to the place where Cassie was MOIDERED! OH NOES! WHY??? OH, WAIT, MAYBE SHE WAS MOIDERED IN A PLAYGROUND BATHROOM -- why does she cling to Daniel so? OH NOES!) that may be wholly incompatible with Mesh's intentions. Even the first vid was rather non-committal, but it still bore the "Bree tells lies" tag -- also very possibly an interpretation at odds with Mesh's backstory.
So the big hangup with this interactive fiction business is that you will perhaps have dozens of people responding to what they *infer* from the series -- and what they *infer* may not be at all close to what Mesh is trying to communicate. If and when they are told that their inferences are wrong, esp after the trouble of creating a video based on those inferences, the community is going to end up with a lot more bruised and resentful egos.
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Post by VanillaFlava on Sept 27, 2006 4:35:56 GMT -5
Well, I don't think any fan creation will make it quite into canon, or if it did, it won't ever take center stage. So maybe, the characters might refer to it, but for reasons of continuity, they probably won't allow it to carry the show, if even for a while. What I could see would be to have some kind of classification, like: The fan creation is ... 1) in the same universe (but probably not directly affecting the main characters). 2) in a similar, but parallel universe 3) meta-story commentary / parody Also, the more I think about it, the more role-playing seems to be the closest to what is being proposed here. There's also more to RPG's than D&D. That game just represents a very structured and defined extreme on a continuum of make-belief games & experiences. There are, for example, real-life re-enactions of pretty much anything you can think of in history and culture, which I would say are role-playing. There are also free-form role-playing stories people co-create on Muds. There are even role-playing experiences that are formed through fictional correspondence through the postal mail. Check out DeProfundis catalog.chaosium.com/product_info.php?products_id=108. I think what is being proposed here, is vblog RPGs. Some of these role-playing experiences have an audience some don't. Either way, contemporary entertainment seems to be going more and more into the direction of audience participation. LG15 is trying a radical approach, not necessarily what will emerge as mass-market later on. But looking at how people choose to spend their free time now, a lot seems to be moving into the direction of role-playing (i.e. playing actual RPG games like WoW, or D&D, GuildWars, etc, participating in the Lost Experience, chasing after chupacabra in an ARG.)
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buckwheat
Anchor Cove Citizen of Note
Posts: 108
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Post by buckwheat on Sept 27, 2006 12:43:34 GMT -5
BTW, where has Alissa gone to? Haven't seen a post from her in awhile...?
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Post by jayhenry on Oct 24, 2006 17:08:32 GMT -5
There's a possibly interesting new series out there called The Human Pet. It's on YouTube at www.youtube.com/profile?user=thehumanpetIt's very dark. The premise is that a guy in Clownface has kidnapped some other guy. Why? We don't know. It says it's fiction in the description of the first two videos, which I missed. It's a Fictional Interactive Horror Story. It just started, it's very small right now, 91 subscribers. It's potentially very interesting and potentially sick, sick, sick. Right now, after 3 videos, it's too soon to tell. The interactive bit is that the audience's actions will apparently influence how the "pet" is treated. Who knows if the director has any idea how he'll do this. The first clue is this: he says there's one solid food that provides a person with all the nutrients they need to survive, his pet will be fed only this food, and only if the audience figures it out. I added a subscription, I guessed almonds, although I'm sure that's not the answer he's looking for, and I'm waiting to see what develops.
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Post by Terryfic on Oct 24, 2006 18:25:52 GMT -5
I’m not much of a fan of the horror/slasher/gore genre, which this looks like it is in the style of, so I don’t think I will get hooked by this one. I think they could be pushing on the borders of good tastes with this series, but it could turn into something interesting, sort of a weird blog being told by Buffalo Bill. Despite not really liking the subject matter, I think they have a good system. Making people guess and solve the problem in the comments section will cause the videos to shoot up the most discussed list (after all who doesn’t want to take a stab at the problem), and as everyone knows getting a high ranking on those lists is the key to succeeding on YouTube. The director has left some more clues in the comments section, as well as letting people know they made a good guess but are wrong. He has also hinted that people have to figure this out by Thursday or it will be game over. I not sure if the promised interaction will really succeed in this case either, but I am mostly just excited to see more IMS pop up. They have been really varied so far from a conspicuity/mystery X-Files (LG) to a soap opera Melrose Place (NoHo) and now we have an entry in the horror genre. There are of course countless other comedy shows, but they are mainly sketch comedy, I think something in the style of the Office or Curb Your Enthusiasm would play well on YouTube
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Post by noasinger on Oct 24, 2006 19:55:38 GMT -5
I believe the food is soy.
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Post by mku77 on Oct 24, 2006 20:03:47 GMT -5
Is it Chicken soup with Kneidl, If the Tamagotchi dies ... Oh well there is always another one..."So many humans so little time" Seriously I like this stuff ..Short and sharp,Two weeks and counting,Excellent presentation with Mozarts Requiem and all...
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BaileysMom
Cove Sr. Investigator
I Bring Home the Bacon...Yada, Yada, Yada
Posts: 248
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Post by BaileysMom on Oct 24, 2006 20:32:26 GMT -5
Um, duh...it's chocolate.
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Post by hyemew on Oct 26, 2006 13:30:53 GMT -5
OK the first human pet (against his will) was sick and twisted as could be, VERY disturbing. However number two which I am watching as I type is extremely beautiful, just because I love Ave Maria and find the juxtaposition of him saying "hello? anybody here?" (why is he looking for someone in that vacant room though anyway?) with the song to be beautiful. I'm assuming any second now he'll be tackled and tied up though... Oh wait he said let me out of here. Since he was not tied up I had assumed that was his first time in the room. A minute in though and his pleas for help are getting a bit boring. Episode 3- OMG MOZART'S REQUIEM! I WAS JUST TALKING TO SOMEONE TODAY HOW IT'S ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL AND AMAZING THINGS EVERY WRITTEN! I have such mixed feelings of disturbance and yet love for this series (only because of the music choices.) While the first two don't have that many views after being around for a week or two, the most recent one has a boatload of comments. Despite that it only has 1 favorited it. I wonder if those comments are discussions amongst just a couple of fans? I also love the juxtaposition of the washing hands and delicate food assemblage while the other guy pleas. Wow it's so freaking sick and twisted, and yet there are aspects to it I really like. What to make of this?!
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Post by jayhenry on Oct 28, 2006 12:45:41 GMT -5
hmm.... the new The Human Pet episode ends with him feeding the pet cat food. Despite posters point to links that you can live off nothing but potatoes, or pointing to the fact that you can't feed cats Vitamin C and a human would get scurvy from eating cat food, this is apparently the "correct" answer.
The end of the clip has an audio reversed clip. Apparently it says "I'm waiting too." I hope this is more of a reference or homage, than an actual indication of the clues to come.
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