Life's Not Fair [11.02.2006]

[milowent]

www.lonelygirl15.com/?p=95&play=1

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaHuyyI4IpE

Summary
My parents finally told me what the Deacons said about the ceremony...

Credits
Passenger by Love Arcade www.myspace.com/lovearcade

YT Tags: LG15 lonelygirl15 daniel danielbeast gemmers19 ceremony parents life unfair deacons lucy weird monkey purple

[spbfilm]

Run away Bree!! Run. Away.

[Smashing]

Somebody call Guinness. They're attempting the record for foreshadowing.

[flwright]

Hello Everyone,

I have really enjoyed the last 7 PFC (Post Faux Ceremony) Videos. I think it’s because they have all reinforced the personal qualities which made Bree so interesting back in the early days of Lazy Eyes, Cornwallis/Coreolis, and Heisenberg.

Well-read, intelligent, literate, and at wonder with the world, Bree is a young person at the cusp of adulthood. It’s a story we can all relate to, but I find myself relating most to her parents. The three of them are so very much alike.

And their religion has become the parent of them all. What can a child do when their parent asks them to do something they think is wrong? What can a parent do when a child they’ve brought up to think for herself, actually does so?

Good Stuff,

FLWright

[milowent]

Random musings.

Imagine Bree was the lead in the school play, and decided to back out a few days before opening night. Wouldn't the director call it "unacceptable" for her to drop out? Probably. There would be an understudy, though. The Order of Denderah probably doesn't have an understudy for Bree, so this huge important ceremony cannot go forward unless Bree participates.

Does it make a difference if the Order is a fraud? No.
(a) If the Order of Denderah is made of up of true and fervent believers, they may really feel they have no choice but to force Bree to participate. Even if drastic measures are required.
(b) If the Order is more like L. Ron Hubbard, just profiting off his "believers" as he craps out outlandish holy scriptures, then Bree must be forced to participate to maintain control over the cult. Even if drastic measures are required.

Eitherway, Bree is screwed. She should go to the feds at this point. They do look into these kinds of things.

www.sweenytod.com/rno/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1123

www.trincoll.edu/depts/csrpl/Vol9No1/Cult%20Fighting%20in%20Middle%20Georgia.htm

www.rickross.com/reference/scientology/canada/canada2.html

[johngreen]

Yeah, I have to say that I'm with flwright. I've found myself getting sucked back in as the charcterizations have gone back toward what they were in the beginning. I do think the filmmakers are really, really good at creating smart, credible teenagers.

(And hello to everyone!)

John

[lesbrent]

Milo, I see your reasonings for the Order's inability to change their minds. I agree that they are backed into it in a way in order to maintain control.

I wish Bree's parents would have questioned absolutely everything about the ceremony then, if they insisted that Bree couldn't back out of it. They wouldn't just "be sad" but they would question the hell out of the Order.

I wonder if M and M have any kids? Not saying you need to be a parent to understand, but any good parent I know would not blindly allow this and told if they couldn't back out of it, they would question everything about the ceremony, if not ask to be there for it! Bree's parents should have demanded to know things like what are the injections, when is it, what time, who will be there, what is the ceremony about and how long will it take, etc.

If the Order is refusing to answer these questions, then I'd say no way. Even if that got me kicked out of the community or my religion, or church group or whatever. My kids are more important to me than some group. Mind you, i've never been a part of a cult-like thing before. I know it wouldn't be easy. I do know that your love for your kids outweighs anything else.

[curiousgeorge]

lesbrent said:

I do know that your love for your kids outweighs anything else.

This is the point where the whole plot will stand or fall in regards to credibility. Parental love is such an unassailable point that to disregard it would be sheer lunacy on the part of Mesh. No matter what, this is where the rubber meets the road.

This is why the whole injection thing has rankled me so badly. It is just ludicrous and beyond any sense of believability! If they don't explain this with a rational explanation, or make the parents "evil", I will think we have all wasted our time with them... This would not only be LAZY writing (even if there is some basis in other factual cults, as linked above) but stereotypical. The Characters are too good for this and DESERVE good writing to finish this up.

This latest vid gives hope that the Parents will act with the Breester's best interest when all is said and done. Perhaps we will have an Action Daniel intervention, but I think that would be a simplistic way for Mesh to resolve this.

I'll say this: When the Creators/Cast are "on" they are Breally good. Getting engaging again!

[milowent]

curiousgeorge said:

lesbrent said:

I do know that your love for your kids outweighs anything else.

... This is why the whole injection thing has rankled me so badly. It is just ludicrous and beyond any sense of believability! If they don't explain this with a rational explanation, or make the parents "evil", I will think we have all wasted our time with them...

as a parent, i have thought about this a lot. the forums raised the issue of the dad still giving unknown injections to bree. that struck me as not credible. soon after that bree mentioned that the dad HAD wondered why he was told to keep giving her the injections after the Ceremony, and was concerned about it. a bit more credible.

he was doing it, i think, out of his faith in his religion. he believes the Order would do nothing to harm Bree. this is strong faith.

the very small number of parents who believe immunizations are very bad for their children think parents who do allow immunization shots are crazy. And, do we really know what is in immunization shots? It turned out there was a lot of mercury (thimerasol) in children's shots a few years ago, which has now been removed. We had faith in the doctors to tell us the shots were needed. Bree's dad had that kind of faith in the Order.

[lesbrent]

We had faith in the doctors to tell us the shots were needed. Bree's dad had that kind of faith in the Order.

I never thought of it that way. You did say had. Bree has made it clear that she expressed her concerns to her parents, and then her parents to the Order. Her parents were "sad about it".

I agree with CuriousGeorge that this is the time when the crediability will really affect the plot.

In Milo's scenario, if the Doctor insisted that your child have a questionable voluntary surgery that you disagreed with, you have the option to go to another Doctor for validation. There comes a point where your faith in the Doctor could become lessened or weaken, if you think your child is going through an unneccessary surgery. At the very least, you wouldn't just agree, you would demand information, you would research information, you would go on information overload, to find out everything about the surgery. If the Doctor refused to tell you about the surgery, your faith would be gone because the main concern would be for the safety and welfare of your child.

[noasinger]

Remember this promise?

I held out for very long, but I have lost my faith. Here's something: if I turn out to be wrong in losing my faith, *and* I make it to Burning Man 2007, I hereby promise to go topless to the actual Burn.

Now I have to honor it.

[curiousgeorge]

Point taken J.

I would like to iterate my point that taking the "Abraham" line would be lazy writing. Not like this has not been done before, I am just hoping that we can see character development in the parents as well, even if they do not appear on camera. I think this plot line would be WAY more interesting than stereotypical, blinded by Cult, parents.

I think it would also be a good character development line for our Breester to realize that her parents have been wrong about the cult. As a father of a young child, I do NOT look forward to the day when my son begins to realize that I am not perfect. But I know it is inevitable. I think that seeing Bree realize this about her parents, accept it, and then forgive their mistakes would be a much interesting take on things.

I realize I am probably personalizing a lot here, so be it! In the end, it would be better fiction though...

[Joss]

Well.. I think someone is lying here.. And Bree needs to find out who is and what is she being kept from knowing.

Unacceptable? Wait a minute! I'll tell you what unacceptable is: A father allowing a deacon of any religion to tell him what to do with his daughter like giving her shots unaware of what's in it, or sending her to a ceremony they as parents know nothing about.

But hey.. Wait a minute.. Bree's father is a doctor.. So hard would it be for him to find out what's in those injections? And about the ceremony.. We have been told they have been in that cult forever, how comes they never heard anything at all about the ceremony.. That does not makes sense..

And what about being too late to prepare someone for the ceremony? If the girl does not wants to participate what are you going to do? Put a gun in her parents forehead?

But again.. If they were up to that.. Why would they go to extent of faking a whole ceremony to discourage Daniel from following Bree? Just brake his legs and dump him in a lonely road.. I'm sure he would get the message.

And their parents being scared? Well that's fun.. They were giving shots to their kid not knowing what was in them.. And they were ready to send her to a secret ceremony they never heard about.. And they were not scared.. And now they are supposed not to do it anymore they realize they have something to fear?

Well.. You know what? I think Bree is being lied by everyone.. I think their parents know a lot more they pretend but Bree having this ideal about her parents most kids have is unable to be critic with them. I think Lucy has been manipulating Bree.. And of course the deacons have lied too.

So.. We are yet to see what Daniel has at hands.. But I think Bree is at a point where she has to grow up fast whether she wants it or not and stand up and make clear that she is the only one that will decide whether she will participate in the ceremony or not and if she does will be after careful evaluation of all the facts.. So everybody better come forward and talk up.. And if they don't then make sure she will not be forced to no matter what.

If the deacons really wanted Bree that bad they would have talked Bree's parents into thinking everything was going to be alright and that the ceremony is just a tradition neither Bree nor them should be afraid of but rather proud of being part of it.. They would have sent Lucy to talk to Bree and answer all her questions to clear all her doubts about it, but also to learn what was in her mind.. And also they would have Bree's father to talk to Daniel and make him see that he is creating a big confusion into Bree's teenager unsuspecting mind by making her doubt about her religion.. So he should leave her alone at least until the ceremony was completed.

Now.. Don't forget Bree lied to us as well.. Remember "I completed the ceremony"? I still can remember Bree stating that she got all her steps right without forgetting even one.. Not only did she lied to us but she bragged to us too!

So.. Ok, I'll give credit to Bree since she has proved to be honest enough to accept she lied to us.. But other than that I don't think we can be sure of anyone.. Except our particular Maxwell Smart: SUPER DB!!

[noasinger]

Some seemingly off-topic rambling about Abraham and Isaac ... in the cultural context of this story, Abraham was a maverick developing a new kind of spiritual consciousness which was different from that of the tribes around him and the one which raised him. It has been suggested that the very very ancient canaanites may have practiced child sacrifice of firstborns.

So the Abraham/Isaac story isn't one of playing chicken with HaShem or of testing Abraham's obedience.

One of the midrash about Isaac goes this way: Sarah had been a princess within her own tribe and left both her tribe and her old faith to marry this strange, charismatic Abraham; for all of these years she had been patient and supportive of her wayward, eccentric husband -- even when he had bartered her in Egypt, she remained with him. Once her own long-long-awaited Isaac reached two years old and it was safe to believe that he could survive, Sarah began to again demand sixteen-year-old Ishmael's sacrifice. This was the the way the world worked, she insisted. In the end, Ishmael driven out of the family since Abraham would not sacrifice him. That was the symbolic form of his sacrifice.

So now the new family and new faith and new tribe had a crisis of conscience on their hands; Abraham had terribly broken the cultural taboos again. Abraham was concerned about his fledgling people's inability to fully accept the new ways.

He discussed the problems with HaShem -- Abraham and HaShem had a remarkably collegial relationship if you closely follow the stories; Abraham felt free to criticize and offer suggestions to HaShem, and HaShem learned from his own student. VERY exciting imagery of God as a process, and something most people never notice.

The staged substitute sacrifice of Isaac was a piece of theater, in this midrash. Everyone in the tribe knew that Abraham had been "asked" to sacrifice his best-beloved son. But in the end, HaShem revealed the truth that He would never require His people to sacrifice their children; this was a new way of being in a relationship with the world.

Sarah was so angry that she left Abraham and never spoke to him again; we don't know whether this was because she was angry about using her own son in the ceremony or because it supported Abraham's refusal to have Ishmael killed.

So the Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac story is actually one of forging new ways of being which run counter to a family's old understandings of spirituality and what their faith expects of them.

Sound like anyone else we talk about here?

[lesbrent]

Wow noa, you're smart.

Yes, sounds familiar.